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  3. Philip's Corner

Seriously, don't upvote yourself with alt accounts.

philip

22 months ago

At best you'll lose voting privileges. At worst, you'll get banned. And then all you'll have to show for it is tons of wasted time, lost saved builds, comments, etc. It's not worth it.

Comments

  • 22 months ago
  • 10 points

Why do we have the whole upvote system?

I guess the original intent was to vote on useful comments so they would show up first.

However, this doesn't seem to work these days. People upvote their buddies regardless if it is useful or not. Or downvote people randomly (without explaining why they did that: e.g. you created an Intel build for the OP while he explicitly said he prefers AMD).

I would love to see the whole upvote/downvote system gone as it is often misused and abused.

  • 22 months ago
  • 25 points

Voting has pluses and minuses, just as not voting does as well. There isn’t a system that has only good, nor is there a system that allows voting that isn’t subject to abuse. What is important is that abuse is easy to detect (it is), and that abuse is minimal (it is). The result is a net gain. It’s just that the minority of abuses get the majority of attention, making the perception that it isn’t working well.

  • 22 months ago
  • 7 points

It’s just that the minority of abuses get the majority of attention, making the perception that it isn’t working well.

Yeah, people tend to single out bad things and let these landmark their experience. To be honest, I myself have fallen into this pitfall a few times.

  • 22 months ago
  • 4 points

Fair point, but is there a better alternative so OP knows which comment is the best option? Do the cons of the voting system outweigh the pros?

  • 22 months ago
  • 8 points

Some other forums give the OP the ability to mark a comment as the most correct/helpful answer. I think something like that would be useful in the absence of up and down votes (or even alongside it).

  • 22 months ago
  • 5 points

It's a fine system on the whole. It has its flaws, but what system doesn't? I just hope it's not too much of a hassle for the staff to manage.

  • 22 months ago
  • 9 points

It’s not bad. Abuse is a tiny fraction of overall votes. Detecting abuse is easy. The consequences are the reason I posted - when someone who has had an account for five years gets caught with rampant abuse, they get banned. That’s a lot of time investment, saved builds, and comment contributions thrown away. We don’t like to do it, but people need to know there are consequences for abusing the community’s trust.

  • 22 months ago
  • 4 points

My idea of the whole thing is that the OP can read the comments and make a decision based on that.

If I do not agree with something others said, I can just reply to their comment saying I do not agree with you because this and that and give an argument of my point of view.

I think this is more constructive and carries way more information than just casting a +1 or -1 on something.

If you see a post having a -1 how would you know why it is wrong or if it is wrong at all?

If you see something with a +5 how would you know what is the real value there?

Having a comment like "I agree, an SSD could speed up the load times" is more useful than giving the guy a +1 for a 10 line comment that may have no further values in it.

  • 22 months ago
  • 4 points

OP might not know enough about the topic at hand though.

And even though that suggestion is not bad, you have to keep in mind this system makes it easier for people to voice their opinion. It's much easier to vote on a poll instead of typing in your answer, for example. The easier you make something to do, the more people are inclined to do it since it doesn't take much effort. Not to mention that more information is not necessarily a good thing if it's not condensed.

  • 22 months ago
  • 5 points

this system makes it easier for people to voice their opinion. It's much easier to vote on a poll instead of typing in your answer, for example. The easier you make something to do, the more people are inclined to do it since it doesn't take much effort.

Absolutely. However, this does not help work for (the small fraction of the community) who casts votes without consideration (that is, upvotes for friends and downvotes for some other reasons).

Not to mention that more information is not necessarily a good thing if it's not condensed.

Yes, that could be a problem too.

I guess it's really not easy to come up with a simple but foolproof solution. Maybe a mixture of things (more complex system) would be better.

Maybe votes required at least a few words of explanations why the voter chose +/- 1 below the original comment.

E.g.:

Person A: x builds, -1 point, y hours ago
    I think you should buy a 120 GB NVMe SSD for your gaming rig.
        Person B -1: NVMe is not needed for gaming
        Person C +1: NVMe is great for large file copy
        Person D -1: OP wants to game, not copy large files
        Person E -1: I'm a troll.
    Reply from OP:
        Thank you for your tip. I already have a SATA SSD in my system and that works fine for me.

And this, for instance, would allow the moderators to see if someone casts +/- 1 votes for trolling or without due reason (see Person E). Of course, they would not actually say that they are trolls, but since a few words would be required, they would need to add some explanation. If the explanation is bogus or sill;y, others can overrule them (e.g. give the opposite vote to the post, saying that Person E is wrong).

Also, this would stop people hide behind anonymity when voting up/down. Anonymity is also favoured by trolls.

  • 22 months ago
  • 3 points

Sure, that could work. Not a bad solution, depending on how the site is set up it could be fairly easy or moderately easy to implement.

  • 22 months ago
  • 2 points

One problem is that a comment that would have 10 upvotes in the current system would have 10 comments essentially saying "This is great!" when only one of those comments is needed.

Continue this thread
  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

That doesn't sound bad. It wouldn't have to be a separate comment field, you could simply require the voter to leave a reply to the post they're downvoting.

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

You've been against this so long lol. It's good to see your consistent with it haha

Really though, I see no more harm in it than there is help in it... It depends on what's being discussed and how I guess... We see it abused in some sections that don't matter far more than in the areas where it does, so might as well keep it or find an equivalent. The votes double as a popularity contest and a usefulness guide depending on the post...

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

Strange enough, similar systems (e.g. Stack Overflow's vote system) work fine. I will not try to make conclusions on this. :D

Really though, I see no more harm in it than there is help in it.

I think it does more good than harm. Absolutely. Nevertheless, I think a better system could exist. For a bit more details on this, please have a look at my comment to nightrook

  • 22 months ago
  • 3 points

Haha, people still try that? Must be new members that didn't see you crack down on it long ago

  • 22 months ago
  • 2 points

Philip, is this still happening often? I remember this in the past which I understand and will respect on what is said. Not asking for x amount to know how many, just this is the 2nd time I seen this about in a long time. I hope there are less alt accounts than before but sounds like it is happening again?

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

Has there been a lot of vote collusion recently?

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

I’m glad we have a public announcement about this now so people know the staff is paying attention to the matter. I hope you guys continue to provide the same amount of attention towards keeping the forums a positive and helpful place for anyone who has a question.

The incredible level of professionalism and involvement on the part of the staff is why PCPartPicker is still my favorite forum for all things tech. Keep up the amazing work yo :D

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

You could potentially switch to a 5-level voting system. This would potentially add more to the upvote system.

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

ROFL Clone accounts. Why would you upvote yourself. Whats the benefit.

  • 21 months ago
  • 1 point

This is a thing?

  • 20 months ago
  • 1 point

I would like to say this isn't about up voting or whatever, but I think it would be nice if there was an easy way to start a new topic because for the first two weeks I couldn't find out how to. Its kind of annoying to have to click on latest topic, go to the top where in faded letters it says the area of the forum(ex. CPU cooler, Games/Gaming), then click that to see all the recent topics(instead of the MOST recent one), and then finally click the start a new topic button, it only take like 10 secs for me but for newbies on the website it might be hard to find. Please take my recommendation seriously

Sincerely MrMe20,
to Philip

  • 20 months ago
  • 1 point

You don't need to click on latest topic. On the forums page, you can click on the forum name and then the new topic button is there on top right.

  • 20 months ago
  • 1 point

It would also be nice to be able to search up a specifics user's name to see their builds or something, instead of looking thru forums for their latest comment/post

  • 20 months ago
  • 1 point

If you know the username, you can just view their profile via /user/(username)/. Their builds are in a tab there under "Completed Builds".

  • 20 months ago
  • 1 point

wow that was a quick response and thank you I didn't know that

  • 20 months ago
  • 1 point

The only thing I could do after reading this is laugh. Not at philip's comment because I'm glad they keep things reined in here, but at the fact that there are people who create alternate accounts to upvote their other accounts. I can't fathom why anyone would do that. It's hysterical.

  • 22 months ago
  • -3 points

reset all the upvotes to zero every year.

all the upvoting is spamming by upvoting or downvoting by the kids under age 59 :)

can you replace the upvoting with a "Thanks" button ?

  • 22 months ago
  • 2 points

Or instead of simple karma upvote or downvote, maybe have a like, funny, useful, or unuseful buttons.

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

There we go! See, this is a good suggestion.

  • 22 months ago
  • 4 points

How is this different from the current system?

Instead of having +1 / -1 now we'd have funny/useful/unuseful states.

All 3 of them at the same time? Or useful and unuseful being the same as +1 and -1, just instead of numbers we have a text?

I don't see how this would be different and how it would discourage people casting useful/funny to their buddies (or their own votes from a separate account) and unuseful to someone they do not like.

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

Much easier to implement from a programmer's perspective, not to mention, words are more descriptive than numbers.

  • 22 months ago
  • 2 points

Much easier to implement from a programmer's perspective

How so? (I work as a software engineer.)

words are more descriptive than numbers

True.

On the other hand the only way I see this is that the post would look like this:

Person A: funny 1, useful 3, not useful 1
    I love the green theme of the build as it reminds me of poison.

Or if someone aggregates useful and not useful to display only what is more, than we're back to +1 / -1 really, just a text is displayed instead.

Furthermore, this does not help the original issue, that people upvote themselves.

Continue this thread
  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

I like this idea. :D

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

Wow thanks, I didn't expect to see this much support. :)

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

I second this.

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

Thanks, hopefully Philip will read this.

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

I don’t think we’ll go this route for right now, but I won’t rule it out forever. This post wasn’t to say voting isn’t working, but rather to say that if you abuse it you’ll have consequences. Changing the vote types would be subject to similar abuse. (We see about 2 or 3 to 1 ratio of upvote collusion to downvote collusion.)

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

I understand that, I started to have second thoughts about it anyway, this seems not a very easy thing to tackle.

  • 22 months ago
  • 2 points

the kids under age 59

****, I'm a kid again.

  • 22 months ago
  • 2 points

Me too.

I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

I'd like to think it means I can stop paying bills.

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

That sounds like a good plan. I just hope they don't all become due again at 59.

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

Oof.

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  • 21 months ago
  • 1 point

Can you give me a valid reason to do so?

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  • 22 months ago
  • 2 points

Don't go putting usernames out there unless you have solid evidence to back it up.

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  • 22 months ago
  • 3 points

Stop. I'm not here to name and shame anyone, and I don't think it's good for you to go accusing people of voting abuse here. What you linked to is different than what this topic is about, and the deleted comment in the thread you listed is from a different user. Pointing fingers when you don't have the full picture only serves to stir up drama and rumors.

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